Butler Titles

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Posted by Lancashire Butlers on November 04, 19104 at 20:22:07:

In Reply to: Lancashire posted by Vernelle Bush on November 01, 19104 at 19:27:43:

Hello Vernelle.
I am sorry. I do not have a clue about the Family Tree structure of the Butler Peerages, either English or Irish as I can make no claim to either!!
I am afraid that the only suggestion that I can make is that you make enquiries from our Secretary, Melosina, in Ireland: or the present Editor, in England - by post or email - asking her to let you know which, if any, previous Butler Society Journals give any sort of a pedigree chart. I am just a little confused that if your great grandparerents held title (as you suggest) as recently as the middle of the 19th century, then they would be well-documented in Burkes (Irish) Peerages: available in any good, main Library. Sorry I can offer no other suggestions: the chances of your linking up/into to the established Peerage, on a wild card, if you have no written documentary evidence is very remote, indeed! Unfortunately, that is probably what most of the others members are trying to do. I suggest that you, meanwhile, put ALL your KNOWN evidence i.e. names:dates: marriages: places: countries: on to the Members N0BO Board and just hope that somebody can link in to the Butler bandwith provided by your information. There MAY be some current Notice Board connections to known linkages with the Irish titles. I am not sure whether the English line is still extant except through Irish connections ? I am afraid that the information given by you is similar to the hundreds of other site enquiries and may well, like theirs,(including my own) be quite insufficient/inadequate to pin down your known ancestor. Some of the Members, using extensive connections, seem to have been engaged in such a search for many years: even taking part in, and paying for DNA sampling.I regret that you will need to be VERY specific in order to prove a claim which, no doubt, is being made by many hundreds of other Butler enquirers who are members of our Society. If you read through the site, or some of the Society's journals, you quickly will see that the late Lord Dunboyne was able to disprove many nebulous claims to a possible Title. But don't let me put you off! But it would seem that you have quite a task and lots of hard graft ahead of you searching through secondary sources concerning the Butler/Ormonde family history which will be found in all major libraries around the world. It is not sufficient to lay claim to a title without producing the full evidence and if you have a good title: which you can prove, then I would suggest that you hire a good genealogist to prepare your submission. Alternatively, for a reasonable fee, the Society of Genealogists in London may be able to help you. You can get their details on-line. But they would need a lot more information than that which you provide. There would have been thousands of James Butlers in the mid nineteenth century. It is rather like asking them to look for a John Smith. Those people, presently, with good (Butler)and associated gentry family Title seem to be fairly well-known and established, in all countries , and I suspect that the race is on by many very able members (much cleverer than I am)who are struggling to prove descent from the 13th century never mind the most recent 18th & 19th century Branches. If you have no documents in your possession then you may well need to "gen" up on your Old Latin and Palaeography before you begin your researches. I regret and doubt that any members of the Society's Committee could be expected take your claims to Title seriously unless you are able to give good basic proof of your most in-depth research, to date. I do not have the necessary research skills to answer your very general enquiry. I can only suggest, as above, that you send a copy of your legal entitlement to claim descent from one of the Butler Marquisate - to the present Committee Secretary. If you do not have any written evidence, other than family hearsay,then I am afraid that there is nothing for it but sheer hard work and sleuthing.In which case, I would say, in all sincerity, "welcome to the club" I just copy little BUTLER snippets, that I find in the local library, in the remote hope that it will help somebody with their current research. The name "Butler" is just one of my interests.With all good wishes, Margaret (Fitzsimons)

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