Posted by Vernelle Bush on October 31, 19104 at 15:34:51:
In Reply to: Lancashire posted by Vernelle Bush on October 26, 19104 at 19:38:56:
I am delighted to hear from someone who is actually related to the titled Butlers. I can make no such claim as my Butlers were all very working class cattle and sheep drovers with very little money and who lived in Liverpool in the early 19th century. They probably had their origins in Dublin rather than Lancashire. If your grandmother has "connections" then you should probably look to Ireland to when the titles were first raised: i.e. Earls of Carrick, Barons of Dunboyne: Earls of Lanesborough: Viscounts Moutgarret and of Marquess of Ormonde. The Dukedom came into being about the middle of the 15th C. I think, in Ireland when the three great Norman Hiberno families:- Desmond(Fitzgerald)Ormond (Butler) and Kildare (Fitzgerald)were elevated. But as the Butlers were on the side of the Lancastrians against the Yorkist cause it is well known that Butlers had very strong claim to land in Lancashire and I think that I am right in guessing that the Engish (and Lancashire) Butlers had sovereignty, in origin, over the Irish clans. The name Botiler, belonged to an early Crown officer. It was assumed by Theobald Walter, who married Maud, the sister of Thomas a Becket, on being appointed Butler of Ireland.Theobald Walter-Botiler gave to his relative, Richard Pincerna, or Botiler, as thhe family was afterwards called - the whole of "Out Rawcliffe" (Lancashire) and one carucate of land in "Staynole" This gentleman was the founder of that Branch of the Butlers which was established at Rawcliffe Hall for many generations. I would suggest that you obtain a history of Lancashire which would detail the progress of the Lancashire "Butler's" up until they became the progenitors of the Butlers of Kirkland. In 1393-4-5 John Botiler was the High Sherrif of the county of Lancaster after he had been created a Knight. This man had contracted a second marriage to the widow of Sir John Butler of Bewsey (Lancs) and it is possible to guess from that that they were related. The Butlers went on to become the leading gentry in all the major towns of Lancashire: Warrinton: Bickerstaff: Rawcliffe: and by the 18th century had married into gentry in the south England and by lots of clever footwork managed to be on the winning side in the Royalist wars and the Irish campaigns: often changing sides:and religion. The Butlers were always were always good at procreation and there are, I would guess, many (legitimate!) illegitimate claims to connections with this family. The late Lord Dunboyne (R.I.P.) gives some idea, elsewhere on this site,of the main branches of the family. But if your grandmother has a proven pedigree then that is very exciting indeed and you should have no problem getting help from the sitemaster who would be very interested, I should imagine. Sorry that I cannot give you any further help. But yes, the Butlers do spring from many auspicious marriages made in Lancashire and present day Cheshire and Cumbria. Good hunting! Margaret.
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